13 Agenda7 Netrunner Podcast – Creation & Control

Episode 13 of Agenda7 is online!

fehaifbdGlen and Dave discuss Creation & Control. 

Agenda7’s Netrunner Podcast is available on iTunes – if you have the time, please leave an iTunes review if that’s how you subscribe. You can leave a comment here, or on our facebook page. Many thanks to Matt Nott for reviewing the show. We hope you get something useful out of it.

Direct download link: >13 Agenda7 Netrunner Podcast

16 thoughts on “13 Agenda7 Netrunner Podcast – Creation & Control

    • Hi Bo – thanks for writing. A mic didn’t die – here’s what happened: we recorded as usual, checking each segment on the headphones as usual before continuing. Sounded good on the ‘phones.

      The first time I played it through my speakers however…yikes! The mistake? I had changed the mic’s pickup settings from bidirectional to stereo a couple of weeks a go to test for better quality – but didn’t switch it back! (Anyone familiar with the icons for stereo and bidirectional knows that they’re virtually identical, and I thought everything was as usual.)

      My apologies for the crappy quality – I did what I could, and rerecording was out of the question. Won’t happen again.

      • Thanks for this info. I had just finished listening to the C&C episodes of another podcast, and was shaking my head at their poor audio, looking forward to the better audio from A7. Then, I started listening and was disappointed. However, mistakes happen and of course it’s understandable.

  1. Thanks for another great episode. It’s always interesting to hear your insight, as it’s usually quite different from how I feel about a lot of the cards.

    For example, the Runner cards that I am most excited about are Self-Modifying Code, Clone Chip, and Scavenge. These cards all enable such interesting combos and styles of play, giving Shapers a huge amount of flexibility with their program configurations. Clone Chip, if nothing else, lets you reuse your Self-Modifying Code in the middle of the run, allowing you to search for any two programs in the middle of a run, providing you have drawn and installed a single Clone Chip and a single Self-Modifying Code. That’s pretty huge. Also, it combos with Stimhack to make for some pretty insane early mid-run setup. However, considering I love running this combo in my decks, Sentinel Defense Program is a little more scary. It allows the Corporation to do a net damage whenever the Runner suffers brain damage, not whenever the Corporation does brain damage to the Runner, so anything self-inflicted, like Stimhack or Spinal Modem, gets amped up as well.

    Now, Scavenge is a card that I absolutely love. I would actually rank it higher than Escher because of how versatile it is. Here are a few sample uses:

    1) Since trashing a program is part of the cost to the play the card, you can reinstall the same program that you just trashed. Why would you want to do this? Well, you can choose a new target for your Femme Fatale, move an existing icebreaker/program onto a newly installed Dinosaurus/Omni-Drive, change the strength of an already-installed Atman, get counters or recurring credits back for a program (e.g. Imp), change the target of your Cyber-Cypher, and so on. Dave, that last one should be of particular interest to you, considering how much you like that card (for the record, I agree that it’s a fantastic icebreaker).

    2) Recover an icebreaker that you’ve lost all of your copies of due to damage/trashing by installing a duplicate of another program.

    3) If you Test Run for a program and then Scavenge it, that program is now permanently installed at a cost of only three credits. Femme Fatale for 3 credits is pretty incredible, especially since you could do Test Run on the first click, run the server where you targeted ICE on the second click, and then Scavenge on the third click to get it permanently for a massive discount, AND choose a new target. If you combine this with Exile, you get one or two draws out of this turn, too, depending on whether of not Femme Fatale was already in the Heap.

    Regarding Atman, you were talking about which strengths of ICE have the highest concentrations. Here are the concentrations, in descending frequency:
    Strength 4 – 12 pieces of ICE
    Strength 5 – 7 pieces of ICE
    Strength 0 – 7 pieces of ICE (one is Draco, though)
    Strength 3 – 6 pieces of ICE
    Strength 2 – 5 pieces of ICE
    Strength 1 – 4 pieces of ICE
    Strength 6 – 3 pieces of ICE
    Strength 7 – 3 pieces of ICE
    Strength 8 – 1 piece of ICE

    Now, the beautiful thing about Atman is you can set the strength at whatever makes sense for the current board state and your opponents deck, even doing so in the middle of a run with Self-Modifying Code or Clone Chip. However, running a deck that uses Datasuckers and Atman as my only breaker (besides Femme Fatale), I’ve found that having an Atman at each of strengths 0, 2, and 4 has typically worked out best for me. By doing that, it means that there are only 5 pieces of ICE that require more than one Datasucker counter, and 24/40 pieces of ICE in the game do not require any. For more interesting statistics on ICE and icebreakers, you can check out my updated analysis spreadsheet on Board Game Geek, if you haven’t already seen the updated version: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/90586/advanced-ice-icebreaker-analysis-workbook

    Much of this post has been centred on the Runner, since I’m a massive fan of Shapers. However, when it comes to the Corporation side, I think Howler and Awakening Center are my current favourites. I’ve always loved Jinteki most on the Corporation side, and these allow me to pull some very interesting moves. For example, the Corporation deck I’ve been playing around with since the release of Creation and Control uses Whirlpool, Midori, False Leads, Howler, and Awakening Center to great effect. I put a big bioroid like Janus 1.0 on Awakening Center, rezzing him for a 7 credit discount and trashing him. Since Howler can pull a bioroid out of Archives, I can then use Whirlpool to force the Runner to encounter Janus 1.0 yet again when I pull it back out with Howler. Then, if the Runner amasses enough credits to run against the server with Janus 1.0, or catches me without enough credits to rez Janus 1.0, I use Midori to swap him out with something else so that I can put him back on Awakening Center and repeat the cycle. Considering all of the ways Haas-Bioroid has to get cards back out of Archives, you can continue using tricks like this, making it very difficult for the Runner to dodge all of the brain damage. One of my favourite new ways to do this is with Director Haas’ Pet Project, since it allows me to setup a server with Whirlpool, Howler, and any other card of my choice straight out of my Archives. It’s incredibly fun to play.

    Finally, thank you for the shout-out (and for reading this absurdly long post)! I will, unfortunately, not be attending GenCon, so we will not be seeing each other across the tournament table any time soon. Perhaps one day, though.

    • Jack! I never saw the connection – you’re that crazy ICE/breaker spreadsheet otaku on BGG! I love that file – and thank-you for updating it.

      I wrote an ICE/breaker file of my own, but it was never meant for public consumption. It’s interesting to break down those cards based on cost efficiency isn’t it? Just playing the economic odds isn’t all there is to it, but I’d say it’s more than half! Mind if I offer it on our website as well?

      S:4 – I should have known – 3 was an unresearched shot in the dark, but S:4 was my second choice. Thanks for the list above.

      Love your comments about the cards above. Test Run and Scavenge. Nice. The sneaky bastards at FFG weave card effects in a very surreptitious way don’t they? I’m a big fan of Atman for everything you’ve talked about. I’ve used it in several games already to devastating effect – all 3 copies in play.

      Thanks for writing Skies. Where abouts in Canada do you live?
      – Dave

      • Hey Dave,

        My icebreaker workbook wasn’t initially meant for public consumption, but it started getting so big, and including so many features, that I figured others could make use of it. You’re right that the economic breakdown isn’t everything, but it certainly helps with a lot of the theorycrafting and staging. If a particular piece of ICE, or a specific icebreaker, sees a lot of use, this can be very useful to figure out how to thwart it. Besides that, I just statistics and being able to stage different kinds of rigs. It’s always interesting to see how flicking on the E3 Feedback Implants and Wyrm modifiers change the costs for the breakers that appear to be too expensive or can’t increase their strength.

        Sure, you may go ahead and offer the spreadsheet on this site. It’s probably best to link to the Board Game Geek page, so that you don’t have to update your copy manually whenever I upload a new version, but I’ll leave that at your discretion.

        I live in Calgary, Alberta, so I’m pretty far away from you guys, unfortunately.

  2. Hey guys,
    Another great podcast! Glad to hear you’re tripping down to Indy for GenCon. Would love to sit down and chat Netrunner with you guys if you’ve got the time.

    One of the things in the C&C expansion I was moderately surprised at were the included deck lists for H-B and Kit. I’d love to hear what you guys think about them and how you’d tweak or trash them.

    I’m definitely looking forward to ep14 to hear how your playing of the expansion turns out, and if the cards you were really stoked for played as well as you think they will.


    “Mad” Jack Deacon

    • Thanks for writing Mad Jack. I was surprised at the deck lists too – and fairly skeptical. And I was right – they’re made to play against each other – although I would never use them straight up.

      I’ve played several games with them and the economy for both just isn’t there. HB can make money occasionally, but the ICE included is above average in cost. Kit can make enough money to make runs, but without much installed. I found Freelance Coding Contracts making me plenty of money discarding programs, surprisingly.

      Play them and you will learn alot about their play style. Then tweak them to suit you.
      – Dave

  3. Nice one guys. I disagree wih Escher being the best card though. I like Atman and Self Modifying Code a lot better, especially Atman is insane with Datasuckers and SMC is pretty much the best program tutor in the game right now, becuase it lets you install the programs mid-run which has great synergy with Stimhack.

    Also Exploratory Romp is pretty awful. SanSan is a much bigger threat than ToL and Infiltration is much better at identifying traps. Also, you don’t know what card you removed the tokens from. If you are not sure i there is a trap or an agenda in there, you have to run through the server with Exploratory Romp and then run it again to actually see what it is. Just playing Infiltration is a hell of a lot better in this situation.

    And moving/placing are indeed advancement counters are indeed different from actually advancing 😉

    • “And moving/placing are indeed advancement counters are indeed different from actually advancing ;)”

      To expand on this, we’ve got the same reasoning as with Matrix Analyzer/Because We Built It. (Lukas himself made comments that are compiled on BGG.) Certain effects, such as Matrix Analyzer/Psychographics/Trick of Light, may be similar in effect to the act of advancing…but aren’t quite the same thing. Considering that FFG clarified the definition of “all” in the FAQ I can’t see why they won’t eventually do the same for advancing.

  4. The company that is working with FFG here in Spain is Edge. And Edge chose to print first the Star Wars LCG cards. They started with Netrunner once they finished with Star Wars which is a shame as Netrunner is a much better game (sorry for the Star Wars fans, I own the game too; it’s fun but it’s not as much fun).

    They did a translation mistake with the card Notoriety. The spanish text reads “Play only if you made a successful run on R&D, HQ, OR Archives this turn”. It has appeared on spanish FAQ but now you know it, just in case someone tries to play it the wrong way.

    In the end I wasn’t able to go to Madrid’s Regional and I am still trying to figure out who won and the decklists. The good news is that Edge posted a week ago the decklists for Bilbao’s Regional winner and second place (too bad the tournament took place on July, a bit too late). You can find them here (in spanish): http://www.edgeent.com/v2/edge_news.asp?etyn=1&ecan=6&epn=0

    I have played two small tournaments (less than 10 people) and managed to win the first one (lucky) but in the second one I only managed to win one game. The metagame here has plenty of shaper decks and NBN fast advance decks. We don’t see many HB decks, not even after creation and control.

    The Netrunner community here is growing and I have already two playing groups. In Madrid we are a group of 8 people while in Segovia I have a couple of friends I can play with (we are now discussing if we buy these: http://www.litko.net/products/Net-Hacker-Token-Set-%2884%29.html#.UhR6O9JFAn4). And there are some players I know only from tournaments of course.

    I love this game… and you podcast, of course!

  5. Hey guys, I’m new to the game and am trying to pick it up from starting decks to up to date cards. I would love to listen to your podcast in order to progress as you all did, but I know your migrating servers. Is there any way for me to get the beginning shows? Or do I have to wait a few months for those to be available once again?

    Brian W from Austin

    Ps. I wouldn’t be opposed to a Dropbox link.

  6. As promised: the lists for Madrid’s Regional. 20 people participated.
    Corps: 10 HB EtF, 5 Weyland, 1 NBN, 1 Jinteki, 1 NBN TWiY, 2 HB Next Design.
    Runners: 8 Andromeda, 5 Noise, 3 Gabe, 2 Kate, 1 Chaos, 1 Professor

    Alberto Murcia, known as Darko was the winner with these lists.

    Weyland BBW

    Agendas (11):
    Government Contracts x3
    Project Atlas x3
    Hostile Takeover x3
    Posted Bounty x2

    ICE (20):
    Caduceus x3
    Shadow x3
    Ice Wall x3
    Bastion x1
    Chimera x2
    Eli 1.0 x2 (1 Influ)
    Archer x3
    Enigma x3

    Asset (3):
    Snare x 3 (3 influ)
    Operation (15):
    Beanstalk Royalties x3
    Hedge Fund x3
    Scorched Earth x3
    Green Level Clerance x3 (1 Influ)
    SEA source x1 (2 Influ)
    Anonymous Tip x2 (1 influ)

    Operation (15):
    Beanstalk Royalties x3
    Hedge Fund x3
    Scorched Earth x3
    Green Level Clerance x3 (1 Influ)
    SEA source x1 (2 Influ)
    Anonymous Tip x2 (1 influ)

    Noise “Hacker Extraordinaire”

    Programas (20):
    Crypsis x3
    Darwin x1
    Sahasrara x3 (2 Influ)
    Djinn x2
    Parasite x3
    Datasucker x3
    Imp x2
    Medium x2
    Nerve Agent x1

    Event (8):
    Sure Gamble x3
    Stimhack x2
    Deja vu x3

    Hardware (5):
    Plascrete Carapace x3
    Grimorio x2

    Resource (12):
    Wyldside x3
    Daily Cast x3
    Armitage Codebusting x3
    Aesop’s Pawnshop x3 (2 Influ)

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